[DISCUSSION] Should SoloLearn reward users learning multiple languages?

Question

Hello everybody,
First of all, I'm aware this discussion may not be welcomed by everyone, so I will emphasize first and foremost that my intent is not to judge anybody or to tell people how to use the app.

However, I was surprized to observe that the _vast majority_ (NOT EVERYBODY OBVIOUSLY) of top performers on SoloLearn (who reached level 16, 17, 18, etc) share the same "skillset": 150 000+ XP in HTML and virtually 0 XP in all other languages.
What's more, I was stunned to observe all the attention and encouragement they receive!
It is extremely appreciable to have such a warm/caring community of course, but I honestly think it does not benefit our "champions" at all.

Thing is, the questions' pool for each language is small enough for you to have seen 80+% of them all after about ~150-200 challenges.
At this point, if you have studied the course beforehand and reached about 2000+ XP, you should already have a good grasp of the language and it should allow you to move onto programming projects of your own, or to another language!

Playing challenges can become extremely addictive over time from the high you get gaining XP... However it turns into an absolute waste of time after a while.
Truth is harsh, but playing 200 challenges of HTML a day for a year will never make you a programmer...
Eventually, it all comes down to memorizing answers for all questions, with no thinking at all.
All that time spent acquiring 500000 XP in HTML (which is -sorry- not much of a valuable/challenging skill to acquire in my opinion, especially with all the web frameworks out there in 2019) would have been better off traded with becoming an actual _programmer_ in at least 5 different sophisticated languages.

In other words, I do not think that it sends good signals for newcomers to put on top of the SoloLearn ladder the ones of us who did not "learn" quite much...

My intent is not to criticize without trying to bring solutions to the table, and it turns out this "problem" could be fixed easily.

Answer 1

The big flaw comes from the XP system which still grants you with +5 XP for draws and +6 XPs for wins even when you reached an astronomical amount of XP.

This anti-learning/game-killer behaviour could be addressed reducing XP gains down to only +1 after a significant amount of XP!
At this point, it would become much more profitable to move onto the "coding section" or to get XP in a new language.
1) This would benefit XP addicts who would LEARN _many sophisticated programming languages in the process_, which would inspire newcomers to follow along!
2) The players from 1) would waste so much less precious time.
3) It would favor SoloLearners who display concrete and applicable programming skills
4) It would give more credit to SoloLearn.

Indeed, I often get to read people asking in the Q&A whether completing SL courses could be used as an argument in job applications.
It is not the case right now, but making the app more serious in those very aspects would be one big step forward.

That's all folks, thanks to you if you read up to this point.
I just wanted to share my thoughts on that matter hoping it will help the community get better at programming on the long run, which is -by the way- the sole purpose of this application, besides having fun :)
It'd be my pleasure to hear your opinion about it and discuss it with you!
What are your views on the topic?

Answer 2

I think I like your opinion....
Maybe you can send a feedback to SoloLearn about your concern/suggestion?

Answer 3

HonFu indeed that aspect too is sadly very true!
Having a whole "social network" concept embedded is awesome, but the way it currently works doesn't help putting quality code forward!
⚜️JTLZ⚜️[#Never Give Up!] Exam Going On :( seems like a good idea! Will submit it soon.
However as HonFu stated, it is interesting to bring these questions to the community so that others can also share their experience related to the app!
Eventually it will give more value to the message forwarded to [e-mail]

Answer 4

Finally, a question that echoes my sentiment 100%. I have often wondered about posting such a question myself but you have done it far better than I could have ever done it. I have no idea how many precious hours of my life have been wasted by repeating html challenge questions just for the addictive reason of gaining XP. But I won't sue Sololearn for this waste but instead try to rehabilitate myself and take the first step by confessing that yes, I am an XP addict! Or rather, I used to be and I am trying my hardest to kick the habit. My proposals for refactoring the challenge xp system and restoring some honour back into the value of XP include: 1) give only 1xp for someone who draws an html challenge while granting 5xp to other languages and 2) prevent someone from challenging in a language if they have seen the entire question pool for the language within a given time-span, say 2 weeks. Thanks again for the question and I love Jim Carey BTW.

Answer 5

Ace,

I fully support your motion. Last month I finished six courses, gained a lot of badges and fought challenges in six different languages. But I still gained not as many xp as the HTML-addicts doing exactly what you described above. That is kind of frustrating and I have since refrained from trying to gain more xp.

Answer 6

From my own experience, you can reach level 16 quite fine with a reasonable amount of challenge plus other activities. level 17... not so much.

Reasonable I would call the point where you still encounter unknown riddles frequently and still actually have to think about the problems.

XP and challenges is not the only counter productive aspect in my opinion. Another big factor is the huge focus on getting a top position in *any* 'division'. Often this involves upvotes and the strategies to acquire them.

We frequently see codes that don't do a lot or don't even work getting upvoted. This can lead to a habit of stopping to polish a code because the aim (approval) is already fulfilled.

I see value in discussing about these things here since they are strongly related to our learning experience here on Sololearn.

Answer 7

HonFu yup, having a Q&A for quizzes just as in lessons would be cool. For learning purposes I run the code in the interpreter/debugger to find out what was wrong. It would be a gain of time to share the information with others/read from others though

Answer 8

Daniel Adam that's exactly what I'm trying to explain :)
Some people need XP rewards to make the learning process funnier, some others don't.
What I'm proposing here are ideas to make people _learn_ more whike still having fun, which as I said, is the sole purpose of the app!

Answer 9

bakitza
"If you like learning, focus on that. If you like XP, focus on that."
Sure! And as you said, people are free to do whatever they like.
Then again... wouldn't it be better if focusing on XP induced learning in the process??
You raised a point: "SL will probably not change the way it works in order to keep their audience"
True... I do not agree though.
Yes, SL would lose most of the people who use the app just like Candy Crush or w/e (understand: with brains off) but they would get loads of new users who did not like the app in the first place because of the aspects described here.
Secondly, I think some of us crave XP so much they would do whatever it takes to keep their game up. With rules as proposed above, they would force themselves to learn C, C++, C#, Java, Python, Ruby, PHP, JS and so on!!
For some, unexpected career opportunities could come to life with only a few simple changes to the app...
In a nutshell, it would be great if this app "combined business with pleasure"!

Answer 10

The reward is your growing knowledge. What else do you need to use this App?

Answer 11

The size of the pools might differ though - candy crushers vs. loads of new users.

Answer 12

Sonic admitting the problem is the first step to recovery ☺️☺️🤗.

I've had my fair share of online addictions too, so I'm not the one to judge anybody on this matter.... I agree with you that a healthier approach is to be a little more in control of how we use these apps, and not let them control us. Do we really need XP to motivate us to learn a new language? We really should be able to use the app as we like, and find joy in it even if we don't get some digital badge to tell us how great we are.

I agree that in an ideal education app, the XP would be better at promoting learning. But this is not a public education institution, it's a private company selling our attention to their advertising customers. It's that ideal? No. It's just how it is. And we should rely on ourselves and this supportive community to learn the right things, not on the SL marketing/sales department.

Answer 13

What I would like in a productive challenging system:

When I look for an opponent, I will be matched with someone who shares an equal set of five *not yet correctly answered questions*.

If there is no such opponent or no such set of problems, I would like to read: 'No challenge available.'

Riddles I have already answered I would like to be able to just read through for review.

Answer 14

It would have to be changed in one gulp.

Because if you just make riddles runnable and freely readable, it will only make the problem worse: Addicts will use it to rote-remember HTML (or whatever) questions more conveniently.

To resolve the issue, there can't be a gain from brute-force remembering; instead *understanding* should be rewarded.

Answer 15

You're free to use the app as you wish. Don't play only html if you don't want to, play 10 languages at once if you want to. Why do you need XP? XP is not meant for people who just wanna learn, but for those who need an ego boost. And SoloLearn is trying to cater to both types of people.

If your goal is to learn, then learn and ignore XP. The XP is only there for SoloLearn's purpose of keeping users addicted to the app. It's a trick that works on many people, but it has nothing to do with learning, just with trying to get people to open the app every day and see as many ads as possible.

But you're free to ignore that and just do whatever you think will best benefit you. If you like learning, focus on that. If you like XP, focus on that. They'll never stop giving XP to people just because they do a lot of challenges. That's the whole point of XP, to get them to do that!

Answer 16

Ventura 😎 I agree with the idea that it would "be better" for learners to be rewarded for learning. But I think you're confusing what's better for learners and what makes ad money. What brings more eyes to the app, hard learners or people who fill their time with some mobile games while waiting for the bus?

I'm here for the learning, but honestly, I spend much more time on other learning platforms with better designed courses. I'm here only when I'm not on my computer, because it's a rare mobile based coding app.

I don't see how gaining more XP would improve my learning experience. Better course material would definitely improve it. But that would be a lot of investment to get a bit of my attention. Whereas just some community created quizzes bring in a lot of quiz-XP-hunter eyes.

Also, I sure hope they won't try to make money off of the coding feature. I'm happy with my small XP count as long as they don't put up an ad every time I want to run a code.

Answer 17

And just to add, I'm not trying to bash SL, they're just doing what their investors expect them to. We are not their customers, the advertisers are. And yes, they have to keep us happy enough to continue opening the app. But there's plenty of reason to do that even without the XP. What we get out of this business is one of the first apps with ability to code on a mobile phone. And while that may not mean much to those of us who also have a laptop, I've seen people posting on forums who don't even own a computer, and this is the only way they get to code and practice. That's amazing!

I honestly think that people benefiting the least are those who get trapped into the XP race and spend their days clicking away on quizzes they know by heart. But hey, they're helping to bring ads to finance the app for the rest of us! 😁😁

Answer 18

Yeah ofcourse